tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post1384711830070434280..comments2023-10-22T09:19:57.342-04:00Comments on אישים ושיטות: Defense of Torah Temimah- Response to Dr. ShapiroWolf2191http://www.blogger.com/profile/13577870680689849400noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-3579213545243201322008-10-12T06:18:00.000-04:002008-10-12T06:18:00.000-04:00re marc shapiro's initial comment, there is a hala...re marc shapiro's initial comment, there is a halachik discussion as to whether one must quote a source in this case, tiferes ziv says no need, shu't meishiv devorim says you should quote source, see minhogei yisroel torah, sdei chemed, shu't afarkasta deanya, likutei sichos from LR, V 37 P 180Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-51164101601463302682008-02-11T21:06:00.000-05:002008-02-11T21:06:00.000-05:00It is a gross misinterpretation and extremely misl...It is a gross misinterpretation and extremely misleading to say that Mondshines article is based on the omision of Rabbi Zevin. Here is the link, see for yourself that is brought paranthetically last as opposed to the 10 proven discrepancies explained and analyzed before.<BR/>Lander compromises his integrity to make his case, and this is inexcusable.<BR/>http://www.shturem.net/index.php...=artdays& id=785Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-79719816947201558242008-01-23T09:49:00.000-05:002008-01-23T09:49:00.000-05:00Where can one see the rest of pages of SICHA TEMIM...Where can one see the rest of pages of SICHA TEMIMAH? <BR/><BR/>Does anyone have a scan of the entire booklet?<BR/><BR/>Having read the 3 pages posted, it seems to me to be the work of an aggrieved sub-editor rather than serious criticism. (After all, he worked on the TT for several years - which means that even he accepted that it was a worthy undertaking.) <BR/><BR/>Aso, in cases like this can we accept R' Zakheim's version of matters - without hearing what RB Epstein would have said?<BR/><BR/>And who was this Zakehim anyway? Does anyone have any info?<BR/><BR/>Please also send scans and responses CC to my email sba@sba2.com (just in case I miss it amongst the hundreds of responses here). ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-76418091484619228672008-01-18T10:54:00.000-05:002008-01-18T10:54:00.000-05:00I grant your third paragraph. That's why he gets o...I grant your third paragraph. That's why he gets on so many peoples nerves - hence all the harsh reviews. He had a theatrical sense and he liked to dramatically express himself. <BR/><BR/>His father did seem to read and discuss his stuff. He quotes his proof that Rashi on Temurah is not Rashi (but disagrees) in one of his letters.<BR/><BR/>The improbable Hagahos are for another post.Wolf2191https://www.blogger.com/profile/13577870680689849400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-25468428007645845902008-01-18T10:24:00.000-05:002008-01-18T10:24:00.000-05:00He would have wanted to make (or, more accurately ...He would have wanted to make (or, more accurately IMHO, dream) up the stories about the BHL because it put a spotlight on him and his memorable night with the BHL. Frankly I would not mind if I had shared a room with an adom gadol and a series of stories like that had taken place. I would talk about it for the rest of my life. Unfortunately nothing like that ever happened to me, though.<BR/><BR/>I don't remember the "so on" offhand. It's been a long time since I read MB. But I remember being struck at the time that it was full of this type of unbelievable stuff.<BR/><BR/>Also that R' Epstien clearly had some sort of complex (e.g. in the part where he tells a story about an anonymous brilliant young scholar, only to reveal at the climax in big bold letters: "ANI, ANI HU!")<BR/><BR/>Also the way he portrays his father as agreeing to all sorts of dubious textual emendations (though refusing to amend them as a practical matter).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-83521371923183479732008-01-18T09:42:00.000-05:002008-01-18T09:42:00.000-05:00I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the stor...I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the stories with the Beish HaLevi. (Your not dealing with stuff he would have wanted to make up)<BR/><BR/>The story also attributed to the NB is difficult. Fun A Kashe Shtorbt M' Nisht <BR/><BR/>Whats the- so on..?Wolf2191https://www.blogger.com/profile/13577870680689849400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-5681310635440610182008-01-18T09:27:00.000-05:002008-01-18T09:27:00.000-05:00If you do intend to address the veractiy of MB, yo...If you do intend to address the veractiy of MB, you need to address the multiple "classic" stories of the Bais Halevy that all suposedly took place in one night that R' Epstien happened to share his room.<BR/><BR/>Also the classic story of the Noda Beyehuda (IIRC) as a child that R' Epstien told about himself.<BR/><BR/>And so on and so on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-41001357388527747702008-01-18T09:25:00.000-05:002008-01-18T09:25:00.000-05:00This whole "he couldn't make up stuff about anyone...This whole "he couldn't make up stuff about anyone who is alive" thing is bogus, IMHO. Look around - there are people making stuff up about people who are alive all the time.<BR/><BR/>People seem to be imagining the world as a place in which everyone pays attention to everything published that they have knowledge of, and if something is false they immediately turn over heaven and earth to show the world the truth. That's not how things are. Most probably a lot of people who had first-hand knowledge didn't see his writings and those who did probably clucked their tongues a bit and probably told their friends and associates about it, when the topic came up. That's how things are done now and that's probably how things were done then.<BR/><BR/>Plus, I think R' Epstien was delusional (he is said to have had a hard life and was bitter over the fact that he did not become a distinguished rabbi) and probably believed what he wrote, assisted by a faulty memory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-83402674648188720182008-01-17T20:58:00.001-05:002008-01-17T20:58:00.001-05:00I appreciate the offer - I don't have much more to...I appreciate the offer - I don't have much more to say then I already have. <BR/><BR/>I'll send you in email.Wolf2191https://www.blogger.com/profile/13577870680689849400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-41004862350354731652008-01-17T20:58:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:58:00.000-05:00"I didn't refer to your post since it would have t..."I didn't refer to your post since it would have taken away from my main point." I meant that it would have sidetracked me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-11784770087317552822008-01-17T20:57:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:57:00.000-05:00True but if he would report in his conversations t...True but if he would report in his conversations that she read - Mishna, Medrash, etc. then this must be true and this itself testifies in support of the rest of the conversation.Wolf2191https://www.blogger.com/profile/13577870680689849400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-42032646813856822462008-01-17T20:56:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:56:00.000-05:00I didn't refer to your post since it would have ta...I didn't refer to your post since it would have taken away from my main point. And it is not only the Maayan Ganim thing that prejudices me against him.<BR/><BR/>Why not submit a post to the seforim blog on the issue? You can get a large audience there and take issue with Mondshine (and me).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-80085843063815625492008-01-17T20:53:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:53:00.000-05:00I think that others (Don Seeman?) also make the po...I think that others (Don Seeman?) also make the point that the Mekor Barukh couldn't make things up since plenty of people were alive who knew Rayna Barya. But I believe that this doesn't apply to his private conversations, to which there were no witnesses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-79906922724081478542008-01-17T20:47:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:47:00.000-05:00Fair enough and I will include this in the post- b...Fair enough and I will include this in the post- but why don't you want to judge favorably??? The only thing you really have against Epstein is the Mayin Ganim story - nothing else.<BR/><BR/>And it would have been nice if you had pointed out what I wrote against Mondshine's article. And the same with the Plagiarism.Wolf2191https://www.blogger.com/profile/13577870680689849400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-88125147775154913672008-01-17T20:44:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:44:00.000-05:00I think what it comes down to is that you are incl...I think what it comes down to is that you are inclined to judge favorably and I am not. The rest is commentary.<BR/><BR/>I certainly do recall the alchemy story, and Epstein had access to all sorts of rare books. But Maayan Ganim was not one of them. Until modern times everyone who cites Maayan Ganim cites it from Epstein. The book was literally impossible to find.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-43791563162031858532008-01-17T20:41:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:41:00.000-05:00"I do not see why Dr. Shapiro leave the matter as ..."I do not see why Dr. Shapiro leave the matter as inconclusive"<BR/><BR/>The fact that he read newspapers was no chiddush. I was referring to Epstein's report that he read them on Shabbat. Look at the post again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358603577059630653.post-44270560966225674582008-01-17T20:37:00.000-05:002008-01-17T20:37:00.000-05:00Yes, I read your post, but I have been saying the ...Yes, I read your post, but I have been saying the same thing for a lot longer than your post, that is, that the TT couldn't have made everything up since people were alive who knew her. That is why I didn't feel a need to refer to your post (that is my rule: if I thought of something beforehand, and then wee someone else mention it, I see no need to cite it. However, if someone says something and then I discover it on my own, I usually cite it. That is wy I cited Avraham Korman, even though I came to the Ha-Pardes on my own).<BR/><BR/>I actually was going to cite what you wrote about R. Chaim Kanievsky, but then decided to scrap it (because of kavod ha-Torah. What I was going to say might have appeared disrespectful).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com